Hi, I'm Alan Wilder from Recoil and this is Soundcheck with Dave Eston.

It's McCartney, not Lennon.

That's the only problem.

But I don't hate McCartney.

I mean, McCartney's good too.

Especially when he was with the Beatles.

I wasn't really interested in McCartney after the Beatles much.

But I think the combination of the two was the best, really, wasn't it?

But that album is interesting because it's the White Album, isn't it?

I don't know if you know, but that is my favourite Beatles album.

And I think the reason is because the songs are so very, very split.

It's very clear on the album, which is a John Lennon track and which is a Paul McCartney track.

And I believe that when they recorded them, you know, pretty much only one of them was in the studio at any one time.

They didn't really cross over very much.

So you get to see really the essence of the Beatles more on that album because you see what each one individually brought.

So how important are the Beatles for any British musician?

Are they like idols for everyone?

Or is it hard to be an English musician with the Beatles in the background?

I don't think it's hard.

No, I think the Beatles have been great ambassadors for British pop music, you know.

And they're revered, obviously.

And I'm proud to say that they were English, you know.

It can be, you know, some people think it's cool to say "I don't like the Beatles," but I think you couldn't fail to like at least some of what the Beatles did.

Because it was so groundbreaking and such great melodies, you know.

And I think even bands like the Rolling Stones used to be in awe of the Beatles and they used to even record some of their songs.

I think you'd have to be mad not to appreciate at least some of what the Beatles have done.

Not yet.

There's so many tracks that start like that.

Yeah, the Rubets.

OK.

The Rubets.

Well done.

Very good.

Yeah.

Well, that could have been so many different people that intro because, you know, it's Frankie Valli.

I think really that really high voice must be must. They must have got that from Frankie Valli.

Four Seasons.

And there's so many records that start like that.

I'm trying to think of other examples.

There's even a Depeche Mode track that starts like that, isn't there?

On the first album, isn't it?

Hey, you're such a pretty boy.

Do you know that one?

Yes, yes, yes.

It's got that same kind of moving arpeggio vocal.

What do you want to know about the Rubets?

I met them.

Yes.

You worked for them?

Yeah, I did because they asked.

So I used to work in the studio, DJM Studios, when I was about 17, 16, 17.

I was a tape operator.

And they were actually signed to DJM, I think.

And they recorded there.

And after a while, you know, they said to me, oh, actually, we need some keyboards. Maybe you could play.

And so they let me play on a couple of their tracks or asked me to because there was no one else around to do it.

And they didn't have a keyboard player at that time.

So that was my first, possibly my first actual recording that may have gone on to a disc, a record.

You know, I think it was on the B side of one of their track.

I can't even remember now.

It was on a B side to something.

Yeah, Daniel Miller.

I wanted Daniel actually to include some of the normal music in his set that he did in Berlin because he played recently at Hansa Studios.

But they had a concept to work on the Depeche Mode Construction Time Again music, which was a good concept.

You know, it suited the place.

But I would have liked to have seen Daniel actually doing something by the normal, which this is, of course.

And because I've seen some very early footage of Dan on stage with Robert Rental, I think, where he was a lot thinner and he had his black hair and he was synthesizers, you know.

So maybe we can persuade them to do do Warm Leatherette or TVOD or something at the next show they do because they're going to play with us again in Rome.

Where would electronic music be without Daniel Miller?

It's a very good question.

You know, Mute, I think, is one of the few independent labels really left.

And they're not, we know they're not really independent because they're owned by EMI, of course.

But they still carry the independent flag in many ways because they have the respect of an independent label.

And they have the kind of attitude of an independent label still.

Circumstances mean that they have to go through a major in order to survive.

But recently they have adjusted the way they're set up, so that many of their artists can go through a much more independent route and use different promotion companies in different countries.

This is what we're doing, in fact, now.

And then it still kind of lives under the EMI umbrella.

But it's more it feels more like Mute used to be in the old days before they were bought by EMI.

And and of course, it's a groundbreaking label for many reasons.

You know, there would be no Depeche Mode.

There'd be no Recoil probably.

And, you know, maybe a lot of other music, too.

Yeah.

Yeah, I wonder what happened to them.

Yeah, so do I. Yeah.

I mean, they should have survived a lot longer, shouldn't they?

But I guess they must have imploded a little bit.

I don't quite know what happened.

But, yeah, it reminds me, hearing Frankie Goes to Hollywood always reminds me of being on the road or being on the kind of promotional road.

We used to bump into them doing TV programs, particularly in Germany.

Actually, I remember a very famous occasion at Dortmund when we ended up in a drinking competition with Frankie Goes to Hollywood.

I think we were all appearing on Tommy's pop show or one of those things.

And we won.

Yeah, we won.

That's nothing to be proud of, really.